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I'm getting Spencer a new bit.
a) Because his current one is too big.
b) Because he runs through my hands in his current one (loose ring, pretty thick french link snaffle).
So, my trainer is having me try out a full cheek single joint tomorrow on him, and, if he goes well with the extra poll pressure, then I'll get him a full cheek. Thing is, I'm considering either getting a french link (I don't like the nutcracker effect of the single joint) or a waterford. He's not super leany on my hands, but he is very much on the forehand. A lot of his forehandness comes from how he naturally holds himself. He's got some nice suspension in his trot, but he's just not to the point yet where he's getting his butt under him enough.
So, I know that a waterford works really well on horses who lean on the bit, but I'm wondering if maybe this will help in his pulling through it and ignoring it? I know it's extremely mild, and so that's why I'm wondering.
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If he tends to run through your hands, then it would at least be worth a try.
Because the Waterford is made up of a bunch of little links or 'balls', instead of just a solid bar, it's very hard for the horse to grab onto with his mouth and just hold onto it and go. It collapses across the toungue and forms to the horses mouth, so they can't grab onto it, and therefore there's nothing for the horse to lean on.
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Go for it.
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before none of your printed idols do I bend in acquiescence, and he who saieth "thou shalt" to me is my mortal foe "in nature, you will never see a horse walk, trot, or canter, also doing a headstand" - balkenhol "In 1981, the US Army spent $6,000 in federal funds to create a 17-page manual for government agencies on how to properly select and purchase a bottle of Worcestershire sauce."
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a waterford bit is not by any stretch "extremely mild". The balls that make it up potrude like little nobules, and are capable of putting quite a lot of uncomfortable pressure on the bars of the mouth. That being said, it can be a fairly mild bit if you have rather soft hands. To be cliche but too true - a bit is only as harsh as the hands controlling it. I know that it's often used on horses that get strong over fences, because a soft touch leaves it still very mild, but a heavier hand has a really strong effect - it can be softer when you need it softer, and strong when you need it strong.
I had one on Bounce for a while, as I thought it might help her tendency to lean and pull after fences. It didn't really. That's not to say it wouldn't work for someone else, just my personal experience.
unless you're fully confident that you won't ever bother his mouth unecessarily, I wouldn't go for a waterford. Honestly, I would just take a small step toward a stronger bit, instead of the full leap.
I'd personally suggest a thin(er) regular loose ring(or full cheek, whatever suits you). I know you said that you don't like the nutcracker effect, but that will give a bit just a little extra power as well. Unless your horse has an exceptionally low palette, there's not too much of a reason to avoid bits w/ nutcracker action. If you're really against it, you could get a Korsteel JP bit - they're shaped in such way that minimises(maybe negates? idk for sure) the nutcracker effect.ETA: just wanted to add that i've heard lots of good things about the "comfort" myler bits, but i have limited personal experience w/ them. you may want to look into those.
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Skye (3/9/2010)
That being said, it can be a fairly mild bit if you haverather soft hands. To be cliche but too true - a bit is only as harsh as the hands controlling it. And a simple snaffle can be unbearably cruel in the wrong hands. Any bit can be nasty, its in the way one uses it. Elizabeth should be fine with a waterford, I'm quite confidant she doesn't fail at life or anything.
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before none of your printed idols do I bend in acquiescence, and he who saieth "thou shalt" to me is my mortal foe "in nature, you will never see a horse walk, trot, or canter, also doing a headstand" - balkenhol "In 1981, the US Army spent $6,000 in federal funds to create a 17-page manual for government agencies on how to properly select and purchase a bottle of Worcestershire sauce."
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From Sustainabledressage.com
"Quite the opposite is the waterford bit, which is made up of 5-9 linked pieces which act as a chain in the mouth. For those riders used to sawing the bit to and fro in the mouth of the horse, this is probably a blessing, since it runs so smoothly, and still causes so much discomfort that the horse will yield. This knobbled and bumpy bit has so many joints that it will easily wrap around the lower jaw of the horse but give him nothing to stretch forward to. It's simply not for dressage"
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greenwoodgaltx (3/9/2010)
From Sustainabledressage.com "Quite the opposite is the waterford bit, which is made up of 5-9 linked pieces which act as a chain in the mouth. For those riders used to sawing the bit to and fro in the mouth of the horse, this is probably a blessing, since it runs so smoothly, and still causes so much discomfort that the horse will yield. This knobbled and bumpy bit has so many joints that it will easily wrap around the lower jaw of the horse but give him nothing to stretch forward to. It's simply not for dressage" I've never had a horse a that acted like a waterford bugged them. In fact, most of them seem to like it better. Which is good for me, since the horses I have access to are OTTB's who hang on the bit so hard they all but do headstands :|.
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before none of your printed idols do I bend in acquiescence, and he who saieth "thou shalt" to me is my mortal foe "in nature, you will never see a horse walk, trot, or canter, also doing a headstand" - balkenhol "In 1981, the US Army spent $6,000 in federal funds to create a 17-page manual for government agencies on how to properly select and purchase a bottle of Worcestershire sauce."
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laoghaire (3/9/2010)
greenwoodgaltx (3/9/2010)
From Sustainabledressage.com "Quite the opposite is the waterford bit, which is made up of 5-9 linked pieces which act as a chain in the mouth. For those riders used to sawing the bit to and fro in the mouth of the horse, this is probably a blessing, since it runs so smoothly, and still causes so much discomfort that the horse will yield. This knobbled and bumpy bit has so many joints that it will easily wrap around the lower jaw of the horse but give him nothing to stretch forward to. It's simply not for dressage" I've never had a horse a that acted like a waterford bugged them. In fact, most of them seem to like it better. Which is good for me, since the horses I have access to are OTTB's who hang on the bit so hard they all but do headstands :|.
Mhm. Most horses love them. You shouldn't be see-sawing on the horses mouth anyways.
THANKS CECILY! I LOVE IT BB <3
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Skye (3/9/2010)
a waterford bit is not by any stretch "extremely mild". What I meant by that was that although I'm looking to increase the strength of his bit a little. But, I'm not looking to increase it very much. I mainly want it so that he can't grab it in his mouth and take off (what he does with me currently).
Hana- I'm undecided about what to use for dressage. I might use a boucher (that's what is currently on the dressage bridle that he uses, I've used it on him before, and he doesn't seem to mind). But, right now what I'm looking for is something that he can't grab and go with, and because of what Brie and Nee have said about it folding to the mouth so it makes it harder to grab and go with, I think it's worth a shot.
And I don't know that is matters a ton at the level we are at right now, just because he's still pretty green, what we use for dressage. I'm 99% sure that they're legal though.
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I was really bored so I looked at the USEF Dressage Attire and Equipment and I couldn't find anything on it exactly.
But here's what I could find:
"Figure 1. Bits Permitted in Dressage.
All bits (in A and B below) must be smooth and with a solid surface. Twisted, wire and roller bits are prohibited. A bushing or coupling is permitted as the center link in a double jointed snaffle. The mouthpiece of a snaffle may be shaped in a slight curve, but ported snaffles are prohibited. A bridoon is defined as a snaffle bit used together with a curb bit to form a double bridle. Bits (including curb and/or bridoon bits of a double bridle) must be made of metal or rigid plastic and may be covered with rubber; flexible rubber bits are not permitted, except as noted below, under A. The diameter of the snaffle or bridoon mouthpiece must be minimum 3/8 inch diameter at rings or cheeks of the mouthpiece. Any bit combining any mouthpiece pictured in Figure 1A with any cheekpiece pictured in Figure 1A is permitted. Type of bit should not vary from those pictured below except where specified, and bits should be attached only as pictured in diagram. NOTE: FEI Level rider may warm up only in a double bridle (with both bit and/or bridoon made of metal or rigid plastic) or metal or rigid plastic snaffles pictured under B. In both cases, bits may be covered with rubber and flexible rubber bits are not permitted. A cavesson, dropped, crossed or flash noseband is allowed when a snaffle bridle is used in warmup."
"A. PERMITTED SNAFFLES* (Must be used in Training-Second Level Tests. Optional in Third and Fourth Level Tests)
1. Ordinary snaffle with single-jointed mouthpiece. 2. Ordinary snaffle with double-jointed mouthpiece.
3. Racing snaffle (D-ring). 4. Snaffle. A) with cheeks, with or without keepers. B) without cheeks (Egg-butt). 5. Snaffle with upper or lower cheeks. 6. Unjointed snaffle (Mullen-mouth).
7. Snaffle with cheeks. (Hanging or drop cheek; Baucher). This may be a D-ring or other ordinary snaffle as pictured in Nos. 1-6.
8. Dr. Bristol. 9. Fulmer. 10. French snaffle. 11. Snaffle with rotating mouthpiece."
http://www.usef.org/documents/licensedOfficials/2004/dressequip.pdf
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That's interesting. My know-all trainer was saying there was some debate about it, and I can't remember what she said the result was. Although, those rules look as if they find the waterford illegal.
I find it rather hilarious that they don't allow mixed metal bits because of the slight electrical current that causes the horse to salivate, and by salivating incourages them to give to the bit. But, you can buy the $200 dollar mixed metal bits that don't have the distinct different metals.
I freakin love dressage, I think every horse should have a strong dressage base before it goes too high in jumping, but some of the rules make me giggle.
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greenwoodgaltx (3/9/2010)
8. Dr. Bristol. I've never understood how one could use a dr bristol, but not a waterford.
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before none of your printed idols do I bend in acquiescence, and he who saieth "thou shalt" to me is my mortal foe "in nature, you will never see a horse walk, trot, or canter, also doing a headstand" - balkenhol "In 1981, the US Army spent $6,000 in federal funds to create a 17-page manual for government agencies on how to properly select and purchase a bottle of Worcestershire sauce."
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laoghaire (3/10/2010)
greenwoodgaltx (3/9/2010)
8. Dr. Bristol. I've never understood how one could use a dr bristol, but not a waterford. XD That puzzles me too. Dr. Bristols are actually are a harsh bit, much harsher than Waterfords, I don't understand why people don't realize that, lmao.
THANKS CECILY! I LOVE IT BB <3
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Rayzee (3/10/2010)
laoghaire (3/10/2010)
greenwoodgaltx (3/9/2010)
8. Dr. Bristol. I've never understood how one could use a dr bristol, but not a waterford. XD That puzzles me too. Dr. Bristols are actually are a harsh bit, much harsher than Waterfords, I don't understand why people don't realize that, lmao. Yeahh. A bristol used severely will lay open a gash across a horses tongue. I've yet to see a waterford do that? When I use a bristol, I put it in upside down xD. Less nasty action then.
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before none of your printed idols do I bend in acquiescence, and he who saieth "thou shalt" to me is my mortal foe "in nature, you will never see a horse walk, trot, or canter, also doing a headstand" - balkenhol "In 1981, the US Army spent $6,000 in federal funds to create a 17-page manual for government agencies on how to properly select and purchase a bottle of Worcestershire sauce."
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laoghaire (3/10/2010)
Rayzee (3/10/2010)
laoghaire (3/10/2010)
greenwoodgaltx (3/9/2010)
8. Dr. Bristol. I've never understood how one could use a dr bristol, but not a waterford. XD That puzzles me too. Dr. Bristols are actually are a harsh bit, much harsher than Waterfords, I don't understand why people don't realize that, lmao. Yeahh. A bristol used severely will lay open a gash across a horses tongue. I've yet to see a waterford do that? When I use a bristol, I put it in upside down xD. Less nasty action then.
Haha I love my Dr. Bristol, it's our dressage bit
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greenwoodgaltx (3/10/2010)
laoghaire (3/10/2010)
Rayzee (3/10/2010)
laoghaire (3/10/2010)
greenwoodgaltx (3/9/2010)
8. Dr. Bristol. I've never understood how one could use a dr bristol, but not a waterford. XD That puzzles me too. Dr. Bristols are actually are a harsh bit, much harsher than Waterfords, I don't understand why people don't realize that, lmao. Yeahh. A bristol used severely will lay open a gash across a horses tongue. I've yet to see a waterford do that? When I use a bristol, I put it in upside down xD. Less nasty action then. Haha I love my Dr. Bristol, it's our dressage bit We use that on the naughty race horses. If that doesn't work, its the ring bit =O. The naughty race horses, and Shar, who hates every other bit o.O
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before none of your printed idols do I bend in acquiescence, and he who saieth "thou shalt" to me is my mortal foe "in nature, you will never see a horse walk, trot, or canter, also doing a headstand" - balkenhol "In 1981, the US Army spent $6,000 in federal funds to create a 17-page manual for government agencies on how to properly select and purchase a bottle of Worcestershire sauce."
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