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RE: Classical vs Modern Dressage

Ruffian Rules — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 13:10:38 GMT

MouseColoredGrulloPaintLove (7/22/2008)

Classical. Modern day dressage has NO emphasis on correct rider position and correct use of the aids to ask a horse to accept the bit. All emphasis is on forcing a 'frame' and allowing a rider to be absolutely lazy by dropping their hands to their hips with no contact or to have their hands too high and too short of a rein. 99% of todays modern dressage riders ride incorrectly with 4 holes-too-short irons, 6 inch too short reins or foot too long, no use of their seat.

Classical dressage always calls on the rider and that any fault in a horse is the riders fault, unlike modern day where it's always the horses' fault. When I used to teach lessons I'd have my kids read the old german riding books(which can be found in most good public libraries) and have them ask me any questions at any time. I was always taught in the old german way, not this modern day crap of complete idiocracy.

Agreed

RE: Classical vs Modern Dressage

*Aurora* — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 09:53:39 GMT

MouseColoredGrulloPaintLove (7/22/2008)

Classical dressage always calls on the rider and that any fault in a horse is the riders fault, unlike modern day where it's always the horses' fault. When I used to teach lessons I'd have my kids read the old german riding books(which can be found in most good public libraries) and have them ask me any questions at any time. I was always taught in the old german way, not this modern day crap of complete idiocracy.

That is 100% true. Almost everything I've seen latley(after visiting about 7-8 dressage barns), is that the horse is the one to blame, and that is rarley true. 99% of the time, the rider is incorrectly telling the horse what he should do, and the horse is just trying to compensate for poor rider balance/aids. Like Rori, for example. Even though her back no longer hurts, she still swtiches hind leads in the canter whenever I get stiff or unbalanced. My trainer(well, ex-trainer that Im leaving this week), always blammed Rori, when I knew it was my fault.

RE: Classical vs Modern Dressage

MouseColoredGrulloPaintLove — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 09:34:26 GMT

RE: Classical vs Modern Dressage

Ruffian Rules — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 20:43:58 GMT

mephistopheles (7/21/2008)

Ruffian Rules (7/21/2008)

mephistopheles (7/21/2008)

Ruffian Rules (7/21/2008)

~EventSTA~ (7/19/2008)

Humph. If u tink ur speeshul then come on out ta western MD where all ur kuntry desires will be met. We have tractors drivin' on roads, stinky cow farms in every towns, and cornfields around every corner. It's the cow-raisin', fruit judgin', Carhart wearin' man's desire.xD

ORRR mephi can come to my house(also in IL) and see the tractors driving down my road. Right now, there's a nice one parked in my front yard(road construction, lol)BTW I'm dutch and you all suck. JKI'm dutch, but yea

Deary, I'll bet my area is twice as hick as yours. C'mon, lets fight about it XD

I have no doubt about it that yours is.I have many houses(and a church XD) within eyesight, lol

My area is just freaky.

lol, I'd believe that.

RE: Classical vs Modern Dressage

mephistopheles — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 20:29:09 GMT

Ruffian Rules (7/21/2008)

mephistopheles (7/21/2008)

Ruffian Rules (7/21/2008)

~EventSTA~ (7/19/2008)

Deary, I'll bet my area is twice as hick as yours. C'mon, lets fight about it XD

I have no doubt about it that yours is.I have many houses(and a church XD) within eyesight, lol

My area is just freaky.

RE: Classical vs Modern Dressage

~EventSTA~ — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 19:57:26 GMT

Rollkur is bad because it over-stretches the muscles in a horse's back. This causes a horse to be very stiff through the back due to the tension with very little impulsion from the hind legs which are usually trailing the body.

RE: Classical vs Modern Dressage

druimcliadh — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 19:19:21 GMT

[quote]*Aurora* (7/21/2008)

[quote]druimcliadh (7/21/2008)

[quote]*Aurora* (7/21/2008)

[quote]druimcliadh (7/21/2008)

It depends. Modern methods like Rollkur can actually be fine if you're good. And there's very few that ARE talented enough, because soooooo many riders bounce everywhere in the saddle and screw their horses up.
On the other hand, it's a method of quick fixes. Classical goes so much deeper into the horse's training, so that every tiny little detail is solid, so you have something to fall back on. It depends on the horse, too though. Some horses become much more flexible and supple from modern dressage- others get supple from classical. It doesn't have to be one or the other, either, there's no right and wrong.[/quote]

Please explain to me how Rollkur could ever be "good".[/quote]
I didn't say it could ever be "good", I said if YOU'RE good.[/quote]

Anky is good, but that doesn't make Rollkur fine, or ok. [/quote]
you have your beliefs, i have mine ;)

RE: Classical vs Modern Dressage

Ruffian Rules — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:01:18 GMT

mephistopheles (7/21/2008)

Ruffian Rules (7/21/2008)

~EventSTA~ (7/19/2008)

ORRR mephi can come to my house(also in IL) and see the tractors driving down my road. Right now, there's a nice one parked in my front yard(road construction, lol)

BTW I'm dutch and you all suck. JK

I'm dutch, but yea

Deary, I'll bet my area is twice as hick as yours. C'mon, lets fight about it XD

I have no doubt about it that yours is.

I have many houses(and a church XD) within eyesight, lol

RE: Classical vs Modern Dressage

mephistopheles — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 14:35:24 GMT

Ruffian Rules (7/21/2008)

~EventSTA~ (7/19/2008)

ORRR mephi can come to my house(also in IL) and see the tractors driving down my road. Right now, there's a nice one parked in my front yard(road construction, lol)

BTW I'm dutch and you all suck. JK

I'm dutch, but yea, Anky sucks.

Deary, I'll bet my area is twice as hick as yours. C'mon, lets fight about it XD

RE: Classical vs Modern Dressage

*Aurora* — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 14:16:47 GMT

druimcliadh (7/21/2008)

*Aurora* (7/21/2008)

druimcliadh (7/21/2008)

Please explain to me how Rollkur could ever be "good".

I didn't say it could ever be "good", I said if YOU'RE good.

Anky is good, but that doesn't make Rollkur fine, or ok.

RE: Classical vs Modern Dressage

Ruffian Rules — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 14:14:01 GMT

~EventSTA~ (7/19/2008)

ORRR mephi can come to my house(also in IL) and see the tractors driving down my road. Right now, there's a nice one parked in my front yard(road construction, lol)

BTW I'm dutch and you all suck. JK

I'm dutch, but yea

RE: Classical vs Modern Dressage

druimcliadh — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 14:11:16 GMT

[quote]*Aurora* (7/21/2008)

[quote]druimcliadh (7/21/2008)

RE: Classical vs Modern Dressage

*Aurora* — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 13:49:55 GMT

druimcliadh (7/21/2008)

Please explain to me how Rollkur could ever be "good".

RE: Classical vs Modern Dressage

druimcliadh — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 13:43:19 GMT

It depends. Modern methods like Rollkur can actually be fine if you're good. And there's very few that ARE talented enough, because soooooo many riders bounce everywhere in the saddle and screw their horses up.
On the other hand, it's a method of quick fixes. Classical goes so much deeper into the horse's training, so that every tiny little detail is solid, so you have something to fall back on. It depends on the horse, too though. Some horses become much more flexible and supple from modern dressage- others get supple from classical. It doesn't have to be one or the other, either, there's no right and wrong.

RE: Classical vs Modern Dressage

~EventSTA~ — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 09:26:11 GMT

mephistopheles (7/21/2008)

~EventSTA~ (7/21/2008)

mephistopheles (7/20/2008)

~EventSTA~ (7/20/2008)

EEEK! The only book of Shakespeare that I read was (as always) Romeo and Juliet. I thought it was excellent book but half of my Carhartt wearing comrades thought it was stupid.

I hope you bit your thumb at them... XDDD

That would have too much for some of them. A lot of my class pronounced Tybalt as Tie-balt instead of Tib-balt. Even after the teacher repeatedly told them how to say it.

Oh my XD

Sad isn't? Well, that's the fate that one mountanious town in wetern MD must face and we must all accept that-just be glad the fate of the world ins't resting on these childrens' sometimes backwards habits.

RE: Classical vs Modern Dressage

mephistopheles — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 09:07:47 GMT

~EventSTA~ (7/21/2008)

mephistopheles (7/20/2008)

~EventSTA~ (7/20/2008)

EEEK! The only book of Shakespeare that I read was (as always) Romeo and Juliet. I thought it was excellent book but half of my Carhartt wearing comrades thought it was stupid.

I hope you bit your thumb at them... XDDD

That would have too much for some of them. A lot of my class pronounced Tybalt as Tie-balt instead of Tib-balt. Even after the teacher repeatedly told them how to say it.

Oh my XD

RE: Classical vs Modern Dressage

~EventSTA~ — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 08:42:53 GMT

mephistopheles (7/20/2008)

~EventSTA~ (7/20/2008)

EEEK! The only book of Shakespeare that I read was (as always) Romeo and Juliet. I thought it was excellent book but half of my Carhartt wearing comrades thought it was stupid.

I hope you bit your thumb at them... XDDD

That would have too much for some of them. A lot of my class pronounced Tybalt as Tie-balt instead of Tib-balt. Even after the teacher repeatedly told them how to say it.

RE: Classical vs Modern Dressage

mephistopheles — Sun, 20 Jul 2008 19:41:29 GMT

~EventSTA~ (7/20/2008)

EEEK! The only book of Shakespeare that I read was (as always) Romeo and Juliet. I thought it was excellent book but half of my Carhartt wearing comrades thought it was stupid.

I hope you bit your thumb at them... XDDD

RE: Classical vs Modern Dressage

~EventSTA~ — Sun, 20 Jul 2008 19:40:13 GMT

EEEK! The only book of Shakespeare that I read was (as always) Romeo and Juliet. I thought it was excellent book but half of my Carhartt wearing comrades thought it was stupid.

RE: Classical vs Modern Dressage

mephistopheles — Sun, 20 Jul 2008 19:32:52 GMT

~EventSTA~ (7/20/2008)

mephistopheles (7/19/2008)

~EventSTA~ (7/19/2008)

mephistopheles (7/19/2008)

~EventSTA~ (7/19/2008)

'iight then. Meet ya by the paved road wit mah 4020 and the steer, cause he's mah pet. And dat deer dat dun follers meh arund Mmk,I don't sound THAt bad XD

Dang! You got yaself a deer ta follo ya?Alrighty, I'm done. xDFor some odd and possibly pathetic reason I feel that The Grapes of Wrath (which I'm reading now) really helped me to talk "country".

Niiiiiiiiiice XD. I feel like quoting classical literature. But I wont XD

Good idea. I doubt that many of us will have any idea of what you said and we will be forever confused. xD

Don't make me go get my book of shakespeare..... .

RE: Classical vs Modern Dressage

~EventSTA~ — Sun, 20 Jul 2008 19:09:33 GMT

mephistopheles (7/19/2008)

~EventSTA~ (7/19/2008)

mephistopheles (7/19/2008)

~EventSTA~ (7/19/2008)

'iight then. Meet ya by the paved road wit mah 4020 and the steer, cause he's mah pet. And dat deer dat dun follers meh arund Mmk,I don't sound THAt bad XD

Dang! You got yaself a deer ta follo ya?Alrighty, I'm done. xDFor some odd and possibly pathetic reason I feel that The Grapes of Wrath (which I'm reading now) really helped me to talk "country".

Niiiiiiiiiice XD. I feel like quoting classical literature. But I wont XD

Good idea. I doubt that many of us will have any idea of what you said and we will be forever confused. xD

RE: Classical vs Modern Dressage

mephistopheles — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 21:56:12 GMT

~EventSTA~ (7/19/2008)

mephistopheles (7/19/2008)

~EventSTA~ (7/19/2008)

'iight then. Meet ya by the paved road wit mah 4020 and the steer, cause he's mah pet. And dat deer dat dun follers meh arund Mmk,I don't sound THAt bad XD

Dang! You got yaself a deer ta follo ya?Alrighty, I'm done. xDFor some odd and possibly pathetic reason I feel that The Grapes of Wrath (which I'm reading now) really helped me to talk "country".

Niiiiiiiiiice XD. I feel like quoting classical literature. But I wont XD

RE: Classical vs Modern Dressage

~EventSTA~ — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 21:42:39 GMT

mephistopheles (7/19/2008)

~EventSTA~ (7/19/2008)

'iight then. Meet ya by the paved road wit mah 4020 and the steer, cause he's mah pet. And dat deer dat dun follers meh arund

Mmk,I don't sound THAt bad XD

Dang! You got yaself a deer ta follo ya?

Alrighty, I'm done. xD For some odd and possibly pathetic reason I feel that The Grapes of Wrath (which I'm reading now) really helped me to talk "country".

RE: Classical vs Modern Dressage

mephistopheles — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 21:23:23 GMT

~EventSTA~ (7/19/2008)

'iight then. Meet ya by the paved road wit mah 4020 and the steer, cause he's mah pet. And dat deer dat dun follers meh arund

Mmk,I don't sound THAt bad XD

RE: Classical vs Modern Dressage

~EventSTA~ — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 21:17:00 GMT

RE: Classical vs Modern Dressage

mephistopheles — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 21:06:46 GMT

~EventSTA~ (7/19/2008)

mephistopheles (7/19/2008)

riding is flying (7/19/2008)

LOL! you crack me up, meph!

Es ist MEIN TEIL Nein! MEIN TEILLLLLLLLLLLLAnd hah, I try *bows*Not really I mean, its not my fault I generally sound like Hitler meets Kentucky Scheiß I'm bored.

So do you have a southern American (not Tiajuana!)german accent? That must be interesting...well at least we know you're on the good side. ;)

I'm actually in N. IL, I grew up on a farm though so I sound like a hick. You know, farm lingo XD. I'm speshul XD

RE: Classical vs Modern Dressage

~EventSTA~ — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 20:33:02 GMT

mephistopheles (7/19/2008)

riding is flying (7/19/2008)

LOL! you crack me up, meph!

Es ist MEIN TEIL
Nein!
MEIN TEILLLLLLLLLLLL

And hah, I try *bows*
Not really
I mean, its not my fault I generally sound like Hitler meets Kentucky
Scheiß I'm bored.

So do you have a southern American (not Tiajuana!) german accent? That must be interesting...well at least we know you're on the good side. ;)

RE: Classical vs Modern Dressage

mephistopheles — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 19:26:12 GMT

riding is flying (7/19/2008)

LOL! you crack me up, meph!

Es ist MEIN TEIL
Nein!
MEIN TEILLLLLLLLLLLL

And hah, I try *bows*
Not really
I mean, its not my fault I generally sound like Hitler meets Kentucky
Scheiß I'm bored.

RE: Classical vs Modern Dressage

riding is flying — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 18:59:15 GMT

LOL! you crack me up, meph!

RE: Classical vs Modern Dressage

mephistopheles — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 18:46:25 GMT

riding is flying (7/19/2008)

mephistopheles (7/18/2008)

~EventSTA~ (7/18/2008)

How 'bout ANKY RIDES FUNNY. I believe that's more appropiate for her horrid riding techiniques.

Or we could just make a gross blanket statement like "THE DUTCH SUCK" XD. Now we just need a Dutch kid to come on and say we all suck XD

Ex-CUSE me but i happen to be dutch and you all suck! XD jk Actually i'm belgian and the dutch are total snobs to belgians (believe me, i lived in amsterdam) so i wont be defending the dutch here.Anyways, i agree that anky sux. Power to any horse whose ever bucked her off!(especially during a show!)

I'm German. We're all nuts *waves flag, eat sausage and sings Rammstein song*

RE: Classical vs Modern Dressage

riding is flying — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 16:55:02 GMT

mephistopheles (7/18/2008)

~EventSTA~ (7/18/2008)

How 'bout ANKY RIDES FUNNY. I believe that's more appropiate for her horrid riding techiniques.

Or we could just make a gross blanket statement like "THE DUTCH SUCK" XD. Now we just need a Dutch kid to come on and say we all suck XD

Ex-CUSE me but i happen to be dutch and you all suck! XD jk Actually i'm belgian and the dutch are total snobs to belgians (believe me, i lived in amsterdam) so i wont be defending the dutch here.

Anyways, i agree that anky sux. Power to any horse whose ever bucked her off!(especially during a show!)

RE: Classical vs Modern Dressage

*Aurora* — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 16:12:46 GMT

Classical. I watch so many riders and even trainers, use all hand and no seat/leg. Their horses are above the bit, stiff, and strung out, and all because they cant seem to understand the "back to front" concept.

I also can't stand how many people use draw-reins, chambons, etc. to keep a horses head down, then automaticly think the horse is on the bit and working. The only time I ever use a "gadget" is when I lunge my horse, and even then, what I use is all elastic(and loose) to encourage, not force, the horse to stretch down and use his muscles properly. I will also use draw reins mabey once or twice a year, but only when really needed(ya, I know, its never really "needed", =p). However, if you use draw reins incorerectly(ie let the horse march around with his back end trailing and his back stiff, all the while you are yanking the head into position), I know how many problems you will end up with.

RE: Classical vs Modern Dressage

mephistopheles — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 13:00:07 GMT

[quote]*NBHA~cowgirl* (7/19/2008)

bloopy says:

Modern dressage is classical dressage...otherwise it just ain't dressage in my book. *growls*[/quote]

Blooper, put the chainsaw DOWN...

RE: Classical vs Modern Dressage

*NBHA~cowgirl* — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 12:12:32 GMT

bloopy says:

Modern dressage is classical dressage...otherwise it just ain't dressage in my book. *growls*

RE: Classical vs Modern Dressage

ponyjumper3 — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 10:03:24 GMT

Classical all the way. Using special equipment to get the horse in a frame when you could do the same with the natural aids is taking the wimp's way out. Anky's got serious issues.

RE: Classical vs Modern Dressage

mephistopheles — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 07:50:51 GMT

~Her Majesty~ (7/19/2008)

CLASSICAL. Seat and legs, dear. Seat and legs. That's dressage. Nowadays, riders/trainers rely too much on hands and quick fixes. Modern dressage looks labored, not harmonious at all. Seat, legs, feel, patience: that's what horses need. Not gadgets. Gardgets seem to fix the problem at first, but trouble will catch up with you sooner or later. Classical all the way.

And this is why we're married deary. I think. Yes folks, mephi's a classical dressage nerd =P

RE: Classical vs Modern Dressage

paladin — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 05:29:24 GMT

~Her Majesty~ (7/19/2008)

agreed.

RE: Classical vs Modern Dressage

~Her Majesty~ — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 04:41:02 GMT

RE: Classical vs Modern Dressage

mephistopheles — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 22:25:11 GMT

~EventSTA~ (7/18/2008)

How 'bout ANKY RIDES FUNNY. I believe that's more appropiate for her horrid riding techiniques.

Or we could just make a gross blanket statement like "THE DUTCH SUCK" XD. Now we just need a Dutch kid to come on and say we all suck XD

RE: Classical vs Modern Dressage

~EventSTA~ — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 22:18:33 GMT

How 'bout ANKY RIDES FUNNY. I believe that's more appropiate for her horrid riding techiniques.